So we're finishing up the writing
and coding for Chapter 3 and starting to look forward. There will be a
minor release before you actually get to go into the Corsix mines again and
it's a few months out but I've been thinking about that section. Initially
there were tentacle rape-beasts in the mines because it was a hentai game so of
course there was. But as the plot and story behind Harem developed it
became less of a hentai game and more a western adult RPG and increasingly they
felt out of place. As I'm rewriting the game I'm asking myself should
they be in there at all. I’ve created a poll for my Patreons but I do
want to get everyone’s feedback. So let
me know if you want the tentacle beasts to still be in the game or should I
create a new threat!
And just to clarify, Lesser Corsix
will still be under attack and you'll still be venturing into the mines to save
the city and earn the 'respect' of a few of its inhabitants. Much of the
structure will remain the same, I'm just trying to decide the nature of
the threat.
I have one small suggestion for when you get to the trial. Maybe you could extend it so that all of the party members get a chance to go out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Murphy's suggestion. That way, you can have more chance to expand/reveal who they are as individual characters to the players.
DeleteI'm not really with you guys on this one. Letting you pick who to send out gave you an element of choice, which is always a great thing. Additionally, making the player send every single party member to find support could really make the drag on. It's a mandatory bit where your freedom is heavily restricted, and sending out every party member would at least double its length.
DeleteI like the old pick-three system, personally. If you really want to see everyone's scenes, you can always just save and reload.
Haven't thought enough about chapter 5 to even be considering how the trial is going to work.
DeleteTentacles aren't really my thing unless it's consentacle rape so I'm fine with no tentacle monsters.
ReplyDeleteI vote for D&D-style kobolds, as well as an evil priest hiding deep in the mines who's lowering the quality of the ore as part of a larger plot that's supposed to start a war.
ReplyDeleteWhat? You say "mines", I hear "Nashkel". I'll always be a Baldur's Gate fan.
in terms of the mines i have to agree. its not really my thing over all unless its consensual but what i would suggest is that they still take the women to use but for something that (in some ways) can be considered darker. my suggestion is that they where used for dark rituals. anything from human offerings to transform them unto new "members" of your tribe or whatever. the only other thing i can think of in terms of the mines is some boss fight that has like a dragon lvl enemy there and the women where sent to "appease" it (i mean the monsters trying to do it).
ReplyDeleteInteresting
Deletein terms of the mines i have to agree. its not really my thing over all unless its consensual but what i would suggest is that they still take the women to use but for something that (in some ways) can be considered darker. my suggestion is that they where used for dark rituals. anything from human offerings to transform them unto new "members" of your tribe or whatever. the only other thing i can think of in terms of the mines is some boss fight that has like a dragon lvl enemy there and the women where sent to "appease" it (i mean the monsters trying to do it).
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Deletesry about the second posting. i though i bugged up
DeleteIt's up to you. Personally, I'd keep to the western style and avoid tentacle scenes unless its cthulhu.
ReplyDeleteIf you want suggestions for what is the problem I vote wild and crazy earth elementals/golems. So we can get all those hard puns.
ReplyDeleteAngelica's going to be responsible for most of the puns as she develops!
DeleteIdk. On the one hand, not really a fan of tentacle rape, so the sex scenes didn't really do anything for me. On the other hand, the backstory with them was pretty nice. An ancient evil, sealed away long ago, recently uncovered. So much a threat that Rata even passed laws requiring people to fight against them (if I'm remembering it right; don't have a save for that section right now).
ReplyDeleteSo we basically have a swarm of tentacle beasts that can slowly reproduce asexually, that can inseminate a woman who will then birth possibly hundreds. That's a clear and present threat that doesn't need to be shoehorned in. This element was already laid out and interesting (to me anyway). So I say stick with the tentacle monsters.
What he said on both counts.
DeleteVery good ideas. If I keep the tentacles I'll likely try to move the story elements in that direction. Particularly with Phoebe as a side-quest hub it might let me cast them properly in the world.
DeleteI liked how the tentacles worked with the backstory, although with it being caves my first thought is something with fungus and spores as that is something that can easily survive without light. I don't know what other threat could go well in there and I have nothing against the tentacles. I suppose as a LotR fan I would be happy to see a play off of the balrogs.
ReplyDeleteA Balrog playoff is probably to powerful this early in the game.
DeleteNo problems with tentacles myself.
ReplyDeleteThough if you want something else, I wouldn't particularly mind either.
I liked what you did with them in the original, minus losing a party member, but anything you think of is good as far as I'm concerned. I would keep it as forced and not make any scene involving them consensual both because they are enemies and because it looks better that way should you decide to keep the tentacles as they are. Whatever you decide, maybe we could gain the party member we sacrifice back later in the game. Maybe their personality could change, warped by the influence of the tentacles or whatever you use. Those are just my thoughts on the encounter, I'll be fine with whatever you decide.
ReplyDeleteYou shouldn't have lost anyone permanently in v1 and that would continue in v2. There'd be a way of healing them back into your party.
DeleteThe idea of a warped personality from them would be something I'd love to add but recognize as being impossible due to the raw number of variations it'd create. Each choice like that has the potential to double the workload and needs to be extremely rare.
I liked what you did with them in the original, minus losing a party member, but anything you think of is good as far as I'm concerned. I would keep it as forced and not make any scene involving them consensual both because they are enemies and because it looks better that way should you decide to keep the tentacles as they are. Whatever you decide, maybe we could gain the party member we sacrifice back later in the game. Maybe their personality could change, warped by the influence of the tentacles or whatever you use. Those are just my thoughts on the encounter, I'll be fine with whatever you decide.
ReplyDeleteI also liked the idea of an ancient terror from forgotten ages. The idea of polarization between angles of good and evil demons made it an interesting concept that there are forces which predate them and can scare them into cooperation. That having been said it doesn't necessarily have to be tentacle beasts. Sentient fungus or primordial goo could work just as well. Mechanics wise I enjoyed the fact that party members could be taken out of commission encouraging you to know many party members abilities.
ReplyDeleteWhatever the idea ends up being, I'll be fleshing it out significantly better in v2.
DeleteWhether or not they are explicitly tentacle monsters, I mostly liked that they were dangerous, mindless, and different from everything else you had encountered up to that point.
ReplyDeleteIf you do replace them, I hope it's with something equally esoteric.
I don't see why you shouldn't try and develop completely new style by combining western and eastern techniques. Always think outside the box Ker, doing that makes legends.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, you have so many annoying inhibitions Ker, get rid of them.
Some of the inhibitions are technological. Any kind of threat that's sexual in nature I need to find a quality model for in 3dcg which does limit the creativity.
DeleteI see, well, do your best. ^^)v
DeleteI personally don't think making it a "western adult RPG" in any way makes tentacle rape monsters somehow out of place. I think it is only our own minds seeing them as something "Japanese" that makes it seem so. I mean, hentai has certainly had no problem incorporating elves, knights and orcs into their shenanigans.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I also feel like where they were is like this weird slap in the face that doesn't flow well with what else is going on. You're still trying to establish the character and their choices towards light or dark and figuring out how your enemies fit into everything. Something older, more twisted and so far beyond our logic that the sight of it invites nameless horror and insanity, a potentially more dangerous THIRD faction, seems weird to kind of just drop into the middle before even the regular setup has sorted itself out. So while I have no problem with Great Deep Old Ones and other Lovecraftian abominations getting in on the action at some point, I don't think THERE is a good spot, and would advise replacing them with something that better fits the curve established by then.
An advantage to the rewrite is that I can better create the world and define it's history. There's a few opportunities I have in chapter 3m and 4 to add them into the world properly.
DeleteMaybe. I mean I suppose I'd have to see it. But it's not so much about appearing suddenly or without context as it is appearing early I guess. I mean I have no idea how long the game is actually meant to be in its final version, but I remember playing the old one and thinking "Tentacle monsters already? I'm fighting the king of weird monster fetish sex when I haven't even arrived at the capital or whatever?"
DeleteDon't get me wrong, adding them to the world properly with foreshadowing and introductions is great; better than some kind of diablo ex machina shoehorned in as a SUPER!-antagonist out of the blue, like some games have done. But, if they DO remain present, maybe on a reduced scale. Maybe fight one as the boss of the mine rather than a huge swarm. Someone suggested something like a cult, and every crazy cult needs a god to worship; maybe they think a lesser tentacle beast is one. Or they broke through to the underground seal but didn't actually break the seal itself, but the crazy cult sees it as a temple for worship rather than bars to keep them at bay, or being too close too long makes people crazy or changes them or something. In the end it is, of course, your game, and I feel presumptuous as it is even making THESE suggestions since I'm not doing any work, so I guess I'll leave it at that.
Well I see Harem is truly moving away from what it was. It's not necessarily good or bad but right here is one of the big changes that make this a new game that is more a spiritual successor than a remake. And the more I see of this new direction, the less I want to follow it.
ReplyDeleteThe original was a dark game where you had to work hard to be a good person and keep being a good person in a very very dark world. Of course you could also embrace it and reap the consequences of your actions. But in any case it was always world full of dark, primal emotions where enemies were as cunning as they were ruthless. The tentacle beasts were part of that world. In many ways they were a perfect representation of that world. Might makes right and might allows you to satisfy your lust. Until something stronger than you comes and kills you.
The game you are creating now is different. As you've said it's an Adult western RPG. What you've also said in a previous post is that many of the scenes from the original make you now uncomfortable. The consent was often dubious, there was rape, extortion.. all kinds of evil and uncomfortable things. I played it for those. It allowed me to explore myself in a way that wasn't comfortable and it made me question my decisions both in game and in real life.
This is a watered-down remake and therefor it has nothing to offer me. All the hard decisions are disappearing and if the general consensus here is similar to what your Patrons think than this is what people want and I wish them good luck with that. Me I'll stick to the original. Even though it isn't finished (and never will be apparently) it is a great game. Thank you for making it.
To each their own.
DeleteI loved about the tentacles that you had to decide wether you let a slave be abused or not. Wether it is tentacle monsters or something else doesn't matter. But it should be something terrible for the girl. I like to have the choice between good and evil. I've loved both paths in the old game. I'm ok with tentacles but something else is ok too. I'd like a change in personality of the abused girl too. Perhaps you don't give the choiche wich girl. If the girl isn'chooseable you need only one new branch.I know that even this is much more work. But it is'nt as much work as two differen't personalities for several slaves.
ReplyDeleteI liked the choice too. Can't say I care for the tentacles themselves one way or another, but I really liked the choice.
DeleteI am always up for more significant consequences to the story based on your choices, but that is tons of work.
PS: I do want to have a bit more grey zone in the game. Before when I was on the dark path the angel or someone told me "I could change still" or something, so I started being good. That caused story problems during the trial and such.
So that's essentially what I'm planning in chapter 4. The initial non-consensual ambush rape scene will be altered into non-sexual but the option of baiting out the tentacles (Tu'Than now) with your slaves bodies will remain. Although just from a simplicity's sake your choice of victim won't have too many ramifications later as it would make the writing too complex.
DeleteAnd what I'm planning on doing for a grey zone: In the first section (colonies) you'll decide what to be. You can change your mind later but during the end of chapter 4/5 essentially you'll get stuck on a path but the game will track if you follow it or not and react in some way.