When I came back, I said it would be quite a while before I would/could decide if I would return to developing Harem. Part of that is me figuring out if I even can do so, I deleted my 3dcg installation before my attempt and much of it is irreplaceable. While I community member did offer their copy and I do have some mods from it still stored, I have lost many of the mods, and all of the models and scenes used to create the game.
So I’ve been looking into different, more modern, imaging programs. I played a bit with the COM3D2 and wasn’t especially impressed with the variation of models it can create and the size of the mod community. Tried HS2 and was far more impressed with both its modding community and studio program. While stylistically it’s far from the VX ACE design and 3dcg, the results are very good. I’ve always been very sensitive to uncanny valley issues in imagers but so far I’ve been able to clear the valley and been happy with the results.
I’ve spent a few days this last week recreating characters and scenes from Harem and would like to share them with you all for feedback. Not as much as technical issues like clipping and lighting, but what you think about the models replace the 3dcg models and the mechanics of the scenes. And what you’d think if I were to use a more photo-realistic imager instead of the more anime-styled 3dcg or CMD32
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cXciZhrLhNF8yF4WG4w5A2lQCg4794NQ/view?usp=sharing
I'm so happy, you are back!!!!!
ReplyDeleteHi Ker, good to see you back. Personally I have little to no interest in playing Harem in HS2. There are tons of games in HS2 - so much I'd say the market is saturated with them and none of them stand out visually. Also - I loved Harem for it's distinct anime style and if it moves away from it - I'm out. Have you looked at Koikatsu? It's a modern engine that keeps the anime aesthetics - I'd give it a chance.
ReplyDeleteI have and I'm interested in it but there's two mods in HS2 that just make a night and day difference in creating images. HS2 has a PoseManager mod that lets you organize poses far better and a map editor that lets me clip out objects in the map I don't like. If those two were available for KKS I'd give it another look but afaik they aren't.
DeleteHey Ker, really glad to see you looking into maybe coming back to this game. Super excited to know you're at least thinking about it and looking to modernize the game. As for the visuals, I'd be lying if I said the old 3dcg style wasn't iconic for this game, so I'm hesitant about switching to a more photo-realistic imager like hs2. That said, I also consider myself a big fan of hs2 and prefer that style over most others in general for these kinds of games, so I'm not against switching to that either. I suspect a good amount of people who would prefer you stay with the 3dcg/anime-style at the moment probably just think so because change is hard to get used to. Especially when this game has had such a well-defined style for so many years, it's hard to imagine it as anything BUT 3dcg. tbf, though, I thought the renders in the recreated scenes looked solid, and maybe with some more experimentation and renders it'll end up looking really good and much better than alternatives.
ReplyDeleteIt's worth bringing up that there's been an ongoing remake of your game (using COM3D2 I believe), and they're already up to c5. If you're willing to use what they are you can just pick up from c5 and use the resources they've already made/help them out further rather than starting from scratch remaking the entire game in hs2. If the lack of versatility and modding in COM3D2 is too much to overcome, Koikatsu (like the other commenter mentioned) is a good alternative in a similar style that's also worth looking into, and I also quite like.
Ultimately, though, pick whichever program you like best and find the easiest/most versatile to use. It's much more important you enjoy working on the game than picking the most visually pleasing imager program for the masses.
I'm aware of the remake and played with COM3D2 for a bit and wasn't at all impressed with the imager. Especially for Harem which relies so much on various body markings and tattoo patterns. My issues with KKS are more based on creative tools, check out my other reply here if you want the details.
DeleteGlad to see you're alive. Just my 2 cents. Experimental scenes look awful. HS2 is not working on this story since it has an anime inspired look.
ReplyDeleteGotta say, I'm loving the HS2/photo-realistic style so far, and I'd gladly play a version of Harem with it being implemented!
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see an update to the graphics because I think that using HS to replace the older pictures would be really interesting.
ReplyDeleteOld image replacement likely wouldn't be a goal just due to the size of the undertaking. As unappealing as it may be, an ingame switchover may be the only viable option. I'm using old scenes here just as templates and comparisons.
DeleteThe new stuff doesn't look bad, but I'd probably prefer a more anime/cartoony look like the original. A move towards a realistic look introduces the uncanny valley where I'm more aware that I'm looking at CG.
ReplyDeleteI have issues with UV myself, I lean to HS2 just because of the creative tools available for it. KKS would be choice two but its missing a few key mods. Check out earlier replies for details.
DeleteI am not usually the biggest fan of more realistic models, but They work well enough, and the models while nice, were never the biggest draw to Harem for me, was always the story, characters, (and even the gameplay :p)
ReplyDeleteYep, I've always viewed the images as a necessary support but clearly not the emphasis.
DeleteGlad to you are back and willing to resume working, how is your health doing?, i have yet to see the images but if the 9r8ginaos arent going to be replaced yet it wo7od be good to try to keep a similar style for the sake of consistensy, also any chance 9f having it adapted foe android?.
ReplyDeleteQuite well, part of the behavioral therapy does realize how much the body and mind are interconnected.
DeleteThe style question is essentially how do we change it, 3dcg is unrecoverable. I've tried HS2, KKS, and COM3D2 and am not a huge stylistic fan of any of them. But HS2 has massively more mods and creator tools available to it so that's the way I'm leaning.
In my honest opinion the photo realism for the models just feel wrong. I think part of the identity of Harem to me at least was in part the disjoint between trying to capture a pseudo steampunk Roman Empire aesthetic while still using 3DCG portfolio. When you first play, it sort of creates some dissonances as what's written feels out of place but it eventually blends well together creating a unique identity that no other kind of HRPG really has done imo.
ReplyDeleteThe style question is essentially how do we change it, 3dcg is unrecoverable. I've tried HS2, KKS, and COM3D2 and am not a huge stylistic fan of any of them. But HS2 has massively more mods and creator tools available to it so that's the way I'm leaning.
DeleteTo be blunt? The samples look terrible. There's a...call it an "infused ugliness" to the photorealism that detracts from the models, even beyond the uncanny valley (which is also present).
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, the posing is extremely unrealistic. Pretty much any time that the characters supposedly have contact with each other, it's obvious that they aren't actually touching or holding each other--the hands just happen to be posed there, hovering in the air near where there should be contact.
If you're looking for a new graphical tool to continue Harem, this isn't it.
The style question is essentially how do we change it, 3dcg is unrecoverable. I've tried HS2, KKS, and COM3D2 and am not a huge stylistic fan of any of them. But HS2 has massively more mods and creator tools available to it so that's the way I'm leaning.
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